Choice vs Disease

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DianeB
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Re: Choice vs Disease

Post by DianeB » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:41 pm

A reminder with reference to the article mentioned:

10.The Nar-Anon Family Groups have no opinion on outside issues; hence our name ought never be drawn into public controversy.


Thank you for helping to keep this Nar-Anon Forum healthy and on point.

Hugs....
Hugs....

with Love

DianeB



“It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change.” - Charles Darwin

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jade
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Re: Choice vs Disease

Post by jade » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:27 pm

Gotcha.Sorry.
If you want things to be different, perhaps the answer is to become different yourself.~Norman Vincent Peale~

Sunshine48
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Re: Choice vs Disease

Post by Sunshine48 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:34 am

I think it's too complicated to put into words and one case is different from another, the only thread that goes through all of it our experiences is:

The CHAOS that comes with it.

So the Higher Power part of the 12 steps is Most Important for me, bk whatever is going on, I have to do what my HP has put in front of me, pray a lot and then trust my instincts bk those instincts are the answer to the prayer.

In the AA Big Book, which started all this, there is a quote I have carried with me now for forty-something years.

"Nothing happens in God's world by mistake."

You can only move forward, pay attention.

"Right sized" is another expression I heard in "the rooms" years ago that carried me for decades. I have to keep myself right sized. Figure out where I fit into the totality, and stay there. Understand there are things over which I have no power.

the serenity prayer is also at the center of the twelve steps

God grant me the serenity to accept the things i cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.

Decades later after my own issues, it's almost nice my AD has given me a reason to revisit the twelve steps

Almost nice. Sigh

Sunshine48
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Re: Choice vs Disease

Post by Sunshine48 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:11 pm

Here it is:
Quote from AA Big Book (edited - non CAL approved material - please review Forum Guidelines and the list of CAL material)

Hoping4K&E
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Re: Choice vs Disease

Post by Hoping4K&E » Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:12 am

It is not the disease of addiction that is forcing me to create boundaries for my own safety and sanity. I can accept that my ALO has a disease and needs treatment.

What I cannot accept is:
stealing
verbal abuse
threats
physical violence
criminal activity in my home when I am at work
property destruction in my home
legal issues resulting from an active addict in my home

I firmly believe that help is available every single day on the rooms for recovering addicts and alcoholics. I also provide health insurance so that my addict can choose rehab/IPOP/Therapy if they want.

I will not carry guilt for not allowing my ALO in my home. My life matters too.
Together we do recover!

anon1
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Re: Choice vs Disease

Post by anon1 » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:31 pm

jade wrote:Woke up thinking this morning....

If I think of addiction as a 'disease', then why do I practice tough love with the addicts in my life?

Overeating is also an addiction but I have never once told my sisters they are not welcome in my home if they are eating.Same with smoking cigarettes,I have never thrown anyone out,made them sleep out in the cold because they are addicted.

The last thing they need is to be shamed by me,by society or to be shunned for being unwell.
To me the biggest difference is that Drugs are illegal, and there are severe consequences including, prison for both the user and their associates. Because it is illegal, there are very real complications not associated with cigarettes and overeating. However, I also share your view about not using tough love. Still, if you want to have your resources available for the addicted people in your life, it would help if your car and home were not seized and you were not in jail. I love my AG but she still can not be here with illicit drugs. Illicit drugs are not regulated, so what ever the dealer wants to "cut" with it is a crap shoot. You never know when it will send them in to OD or death.
A yogi once said "Insanity is knowing what will happen before you do it, not wanting the result, but doing it anyway"

princesk8
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Re: Choice vs Disease

Post by princesk8 » Sat May 02, 2015 2:03 pm

Even though I understand it's a disease, I still have issues with the behavior. I have several diseases myself. None of them have caused me to lie, cheat, steal, pawn things, ignore my friends and family etc. So for me it's one thing to say it's a disease because the person is hooked on a substance and needs help to stop. It's a whole other thing to accept the destructive behavior, which I do not. Bottom line is if I have a friend who has a disease and manages it/takes care of themselves I am very understanding. If I have a friend in the same situation who is self destructive and won't get help or listen, I move out of the way.

I have a very good friend who is bi-polar (to the extreme), I also have two other friends who suffer from this mental illness but they have milder forms and do no abuse me the way the
first friend does. I recognize she has a problem but that doesn't mean I accept the verbal abuse and neediness that comes with it. I had to take a step back from her to protect myself.

I feel the same way with my RAH, any awful behavior while in active addiction is not excusable because they have a disease.

I hope I am making sense. This is just my opinion.

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grateful
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Re: Choice vs Disease

Post by grateful » Fri May 08, 2015 11:07 am

I've given thought to this question myself and looked at my motives for it as well.

If I could see my addict as sick, I could better let go of my anger, frustration, judgment and self-righteousness and see both myself and him with more compassion and willingness to do what I could do to free myself from the ways I was feeling dis-ease and contributing to it.

If I saw my addict as willfully choosing to use, I stayed in a seat of judgment deciding I knew what his problems were and that he caused them all himself and therefore distance myself from any type of lovingkindness and compassion towards myself and therefore towards him although my heart was consistently begging me to let go of my painful thinking and let God help me change it.

Now, it truly doesn't matter to me if my AS has a disease or if he is making a choice to use or both. What matters to me is that I have some isms that cause me distress and create emotional dis-ease for me that require work. The program, fellowship, literature and keeping the focus on myself and what I need to do to take care of myself whether or not my AS keeps using is necessary for me to have any modicum of peace, joy and gratitude one day at a time.
Seek beauty

martyray79
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Re: Choice vs Disease

Post by martyray79 » Mon May 18, 2015 2:54 pm

I used to believe that addiction was a choice and that a person could change if they really wanted to. After living with and dealing with my wife's addiction to prescription drugs I'm starting to change my opinion. I've seen her cry, go into periods of depression, make bad decisions and suffer all because of prescribed medicine. I know she wants to do better and she has been lately. Her parents are both addicts, maybe it's a hereditary thing, I don't know.

martyray79
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Re: Choice vs Disease

Post by martyray79 » Mon May 18, 2015 2:56 pm

princesk8 wrote:Even though I understand it's a disease, I still have issues with the behavior. I have several diseases myself. None of them have caused me to lie, cheat, steal, pawn things, ignore my friends and family etc. So for me it's one thing to say it's a disease because the person is hooked on a substance and needs help to stop. It's a whole other thing to accept the destructive behavior, which I do not. Bottom line is if I have a friend who has a disease and manages it/takes care of themselves I am very understanding. If I have a friend in the same situation who is self destructive and won't get help or listen, I move out of the way.

I have a very good friend who is bi-polar (to the extreme), I also have two other friends who suffer from this mental illness but they have milder forms and do no abuse me the way the
first friend does. I recognize she has a problem but that doesn't mean I accept the verbal abuse and neediness that comes with it. I had to take a step back from her to protect myself.

I feel the same way with my RAH, any awful behavior while in active addiction is not excusable because they have a disease.

I hope I am making sense. This is just my opinion.
you're making perfect sense

fullofhope2016
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Re: Choice vs Disease

Post by fullofhope2016 » Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:16 pm

Hi everybody i have a question and i dont know where to post it

Now guys this guy I have been involved with for a few years. We have always been on and off although I really love him. But our relationship was never stable. He was doing drugs while we were together and this made him v aggresive and he would usually verbally abuse me and blame me for whatever is going on. We left each other for a year where he followed the program and was clean. Then we got back together. Unfortunately he collapsed and somehow he convinced himself that im the reason he collapsed although he started doing drugs 13 years before he met me!!

Anyway, we had a huge fight and I also found out that he was talking to someone else. He lives away and i dont get to see him. He works abroad and he has no access to drugs where he is but he is now taking it all down on me. He is vvvvvv aggressive and wont admit he is wrong. He always victimizes himself and wont admit he is wrong although I'm ready to forgive him. I know he isnt stable and i dont wanna leave him. His sponsor convinced him that im the reason he does drugs! Again i dont get this. I dont smoke I dont drink and he started doing drugs 13 yrs before he met me! When we broke up before and I moved on he blamed me for it and said that i forgot all about him and wasnt there for him.

So basically i have 3 questions: how can a sponsor or supervisor affect ur personal deicisions to that extent. Is this even right? He doesnt even know me! My second question is what should i do? Should i leave him and stay away? Or should i tolerate him and show him I'm there for him? Third question: if he says he is damaged but still blamed me before when i left him then wt is the best way to show him that I really care? What is the best way to really help him? Thank u all

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grateful
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Re: Choice vs Disease

Post by grateful » Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:30 pm

Welcome. Glad you're here. It might be more helpful to you to post at the Family groups message board here? This is the friendship board and not many of us may see your post.

As far as your questions - Nar-Anon teaches us that we didn't cause, can't control and can't cure the addiction in another person. It also teaches us that whatever answers we are seeking are within us and if we practice the program, we will know the right next thing to do for us. Another third thing we learn to do is to share our experience, strength and hope in the program. As a sponsor myself, I am still growing and learning just like the sponsor you've shared about here. As a person who has loved and does love people with this disease, I know that not everything we hear is what was actually said. I've learned not to listen to hearsay because its like that telephone game we played as kids. By the time what was said is whispered, the last person to hear the message doesn't get the benefit of what was actually said in the beginning. The disease likes to blame and shame. That's just the way it operates. Learning how not to listen to its hot air bologna has been a big help to me, too, as have meetings, a sponsor, working the steps, reading the literature and building relationships in the fellowship. Hope you'll join us on the other board, come to on-line meetings here and find face to face meetings in your area, too.
Seek beauty

mrkitten3754
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Re: Choice vs Disease

Post by mrkitten3754 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:22 am

I have trouble with this question myself. I love someone who is an addict and I just have a hard time understanding this topic. I feel as if it is a choice more so than a disease, but a lot of people feel otherwise. I feel if someone truly did not want to do something they should not do it, everyone makes their own choices in life. But maybe from an addicts perception this is different? If anyone can help me with understanding this topic also it would be much appreciated.
Nicolette <3

River Rock
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Re: Choice vs Disease

Post by River Rock » Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:59 am

Welcome! AMA says its a disease. It's a choice
To start it, but the disease causes them to not be
Able to just stop easily. It's somewhat like diabetes
In that you can control it or make it worse by how
You live.Alcoholism the same.Regardless of
It being a disease or not, my son has told me noone
Wants to be an addict , its a progressive disease, its
Illegal, its gets uncontrollable, it becomes too much
To pay for and they resort to bad things to get it
Because the crave is so strong. Having compassion,
Does not mean having to condone it, it only means
They are a pitiful lot, and there's little to no education,
Resources and support for them in society. They have
To want it bad enough to work on it everyday.
RiverRock

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melinda2016
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Re: Choice vs Disease

Post by melinda2016 » Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:36 am

Hi. I'm brand new, and I'm new to the idea that I need help too. I realized addiction is a disease-one of the worst. I realized it the day I told my sister you have 2 roads to choose between, a life of sobriety or a life using drugs. She looked at me with tears in her eyes and said "I'm scared". She didn't/doesn't want to use...she needed help to treat her disease.

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