Co-Dependence

[mom2seven]

For those that have a good understanding of co-dependence, I have a question.

My childhood was pretty good. My parents divorced when I was 16, and I didn't think I cared. Still, I believe that for the most part I coped pretty well through my years of marraige. I did all the things you all mention regarding living with ALO's. I was a busy mom, always doing something, and when things were good with my husband, we enjoyed it. When he drove me crazy, I would pack up my kids and take a drive for a few hours. He would call me after he calmed down, and we would drive back home.

However, when he stepped up his drugs to Oxycontin, it got too out of control. I separated, and he continued to spiral downward, until he eventually beat the Oxy's. I still wouldn't consider him until he went to anger management, and honestly, I was just so angry with him, I didn't care what he did. Then he started with his bimbo that taught him about meth, and ended up manipulating me into coming home. I didn't have any idea at the time what I was dealing with.

My time being alone with my kids wore on me. They would drive me crazy, and I began to tell them that I was thinking about letting my AH come home, because my old reality was better than the current one. When AH came back I agreed to make changes in areas....primarily the ones that I used to depend on to stay sane. He hated my volunteering, my regular outings with the kids, etc. He always said if I had the house clean it would be one thing, but I always ditch my responsibilities to have fun. I have just discovered that it wasn't fun, it was coping, getting out of a house that makes me hate life, and going out to see that life is good.

He is an extremely intelligent man, and I am thinking he has done this on purpose, knowing that was how I coped, and hoping he could get me totally dependent so he can do as he pleases.

So my question really pertains to the wounds that create co-dependency. I feel as though all these year of hearing his crap have finally caused me to react in a co-dependent way. Feeling as though I have got to make this work, an like I am just helpless. He is so angry that I am going back to school, saying it is a waste of my time and his money. I could be cleaning instead of being behind on laundry, the sloppy kids leaving messes everywhere, etc. I am not stupid enough to know he is FOS about nobody being willing to hire someone my age..40...and all the things he claims make this a waste of time.

[drinkingwater]

Hey again
Codependency isn't named very well, in my opinion. It is really about making a relationship the most important thing in your life, instead of yourself. It's like caretaking in the extreme - we try to take care of someone and fix all their problems and issues in different ways. Being really controlling is one way. Being a martyr is another. Being distrustful and snooping through someone else's things. Avoiding your own feelings (ie, walking on eggshells to avoid making someone else upset). Physically getting ill from stress and being hypervigilant.

I stopped doing lots of things that I loved because I put my addict first. I felt like I had to rush home every day from work in case he had to wait for me because if he didn't, he might go use. I thought I was doing alllllll these wonderful things for him and he just didn't love me enough to quit doing drugs. I am a textbook codependent, I admit it!

My addict didn't cause me to become codependent. I was essentially raised that way, with my mom, teachers and church telling me that it was better to put others first and yourself last. That you should help people. That helping and 'not being selfish' means you are a good person. My codependency is what caused me to get into relationships with addicts and alcoholics that I thought I could help.

::Hugs::
Lindsey

[river rock]

When i learned that anything said against
What i wanted because it didnt benefit
My addict was addict behavior, and
Manipulation of different sorts too, I
quickly learned i have the choice to listen
To the bs, or do as i need to take care
Of me, and i chose do for me.all that crap
He told you is addict behavior. Hes the
First person i know to believe college
Is a waste of time and money, it also
Happens to be the only chance for
You to get a job to raise 7 kids on your
Own and build up your self esteem.you
Have choices, and a drug addict isnt the
Best person to listen to when making
Them. Thats up to you.
River rock

[DianeB]

I know the need for answers. I over think things and
can become easily obsessed with a new endeavor -
a symptom of my disease.

Answers for me came slowly as I began to embrace
changing my life. None of us here can give you the
answers we found for they are unique to each situation.

What we can do is hold your hand as you begin to walk
your own path.

The why's for me began to be answered somewhere in
my fourth step.

Keep asking questions. Here are some suggestions
to help you along the way:

Order literature from nar-anon.org
Read Read Read on Codependency and recovery
Go to meetings both F2F and online
Keep reading and sharing
Talk with your fellowship

This was the work I had to do to find the
right answers for me!

Keep working it!

Hugs....

[Sqbear42]

I have never had my ex addict say/do those things to me as i was raised by a strong woman who taught me to never allow ANYONE to beat me down, words or with hands, to be an independent woman, to speak my mind!! I have taught my dd the same.

What i "hear" in his words to you is that he is scared that one day you will get strong and set boundaries and see him for the "weak" man he is. He is scared that one day you will leave him.

Take it "one day at a time" it takes a long time to "undo" what his words/actions have done to you.
Believe me "one day".........you WILL be that strong woman who doesn't look back and leave him! Take YOUR LIFE BACK!!!

Nicole

[ronniemc]

Some of that may be co-dependence but some of it sounds like good ole mental abuse. Dealing with someone's addiction can cause us to believe we are at fault and the reason they do drugs are because of what we have done. He used to pick fights so he would have an excuse to drink. I became as crazy as he was!
Once I got help I realized that it was all Bull Crap and stopped believing it. I told him it's not my fault, not my problem and to "Get clean or Get out". He got clean and evertime he tried to use that Crap on me again I would tell him "if you want to go drink, go drink but don't use me as an excuse and don't call me to bail you out. Period! It's amazing how when we change, they change. It's called Bounderies!

My road to recovery did not happen overnight. It took months of therapy, prozac, Zanax, Al Anon meetings and lots of reading because I wanted to commit suicide. That's how bad my situation was!
Thank God I didn't and learned over the years to set healhty bounderies with my AH. That was 15 years ago and we have grown so much together. He does relaspe but it doesn't happen often. But when he does he knows the same rules apply. Stop or I leave and he gets back on the wagon. Sadly this is not the case for everyone and I am grateful for our recovery.

Now let me give you a glimspe of what that situation did to my son. Watching his dad drink and go into rages taught him to be the good little boy so dad wouldn't get mad and drink. It taught him that he had no opinion because his dad's additude was "my way or the highway" and "Do as I say, not as I do" It taught him to do what he was told to do and be what he was told to be and not be who he wanted to be.
Now my son is a drug addict at 24 years old. He started using around 15 years old when he realized that it helped him cope with life. He is in rehab for the third time and it has finally hit his dad upside the head the damage he caused by using. I am not saying that my son is an addict because of his dad. He just has that gene and I am sure he would have been anyway but what I am saying is that if you don't think being around a drug addict is affecting your children then RUN not walk to the nearest meeting, doctor, counslor or whoever can help you

Now I have relasped after all these years and I am going through the same things I went through with my AH. But this time I know that I have to get back on the road to recovery.

Hope you get the help that you need.

Hugs

[carpediem]

I am pretty focused on healing my own codependency in relationships. I can say this about my own experience.
My ex-AH was very insecure, and so was I. He, being a very smart man, was able to prey on my insecurities and use them to manipulate me.
My self-esteem, which was never super-solid to begin with, took a nosedive with him.
His life, that of his son, the addiction, craziness and chaos became my sole focus.
I stopped working. I couldn't focus. I thought I was going crazy, I couldn't calm down and couldn't sleep. I felt pretty worthless.
When I would manage to be on my own, doing things that were good for me, his insecurities would go off the charts.
If i spent a night out with a girlfriend, he'd call me, drunk or high. He'd pick a fight.
He told me he made enough money for both of us so why should i work?
He'd have a fit when my long-standing friends who were male would call or email.
He did his best to keep me off balance so I wouldn't feel confident.
He would pretend to celebrate my successes, but they made him feel small and insecure, I think.
Now I'm out of that relationship for two years, and I am learning that relationships don't keep you down -- they lift you up.
My BF supports me growing, and doesn't try to stunt my growth so I will stay "small and manageable" and attached, like my ex-AH.
Moreover, I DO THINGS that support me growing, and I challenge the thinking in my own head that keeps me small and manageable.
I attract this kind of energy into my life by changing me.

[Martha]

Oh do I know how you feel....BTDT.....
When our kids were little I was told(when I worked outside the house 60+ hrs a week)
that he hated having the kids whine all the time. we figured that we could just about save on daycare
what I was earning and that I would stay at home with them, I stayed at home and kept the house clean
dinner on the table, and the kids were happier and he resented the fact that I didn't earn a paycheck....
I wasn't contributing to the financial end and that was why we were struggling.....So I came up with,
"How about I get a job in the evenings after you get home, that way the kids are out of daycare, happier
and I am bringing home some $$?" the response was "Then you want ME to get them fed and ready for bed???"

Yes, I know manipulation when I see it and I now know that no matter WHAT I did or did not do, he was not
going to be happy....working or not working, clean house or dirty house........none of that will make an addict
happy, none of that will make them use or not use.....they use out of their own choice and it has NOTHING
to do with us!!!!! That said, my AH would use the things listed above as an excuse for why he would use....
and I would fall for it every time thinking that "If only I___________, he would not feel the need to use"
That, I soon....maybe not so soon, discovered was a losing thought as I was taking on something I had
NO control over, I only had the illusion I did.......

Today we are getting a divorce and have been apart since September. I do not take his calls, do not
speak with him, do not answer his texts as I know how he turns anything I say around into meaning
something else and ANYTHING I say can fall victim to this tactic he is SO good at......The kids and I are
moving away soon as I and my daughter need distance to feel safe.....

Cyber Hugs and God Bless,
Martha

[snow23]

Martha,

FIRST, you seem very intelligent yourself, so please stop giving this person (your AH) so much credit. I can tell the way you write and your thought processes, that YOU my dear, are the smart one. In my opinion, from what you've said, you seem to have been manipulated into thinking that you are LESS THAN so he, the active addict, can feel MORE THAN.

I think that you will find that as you take steps to return to your "center," back to who YOU WERE, that you will feel better and better. Change is scary for anyone and he has made you unconfident of change, and of your own ability to "make it" in the real world without him.

I am very new to Naranon so I can't help with the steps (I need to start working them myself!), but I can tell you the impression or intuitive feel that I have: You are going to be OK WITHOUT HIM and that is making him pull out all of the stops to stop you from moving on. I apologize if this is off-base, or too much information from a total stranger, but that's what I'm feeling, I guess.

[mom2seven]

Somehow, I am aware of these things, and it is mostly obvious to me that he beats me down to keep from looking at himself.

Somehow all of the coping mechanisms and knowledge I have is not easing my pain and anxiety anymore. I am serching within myself to find why this is. I am acting insane, trying to make sure he is being truthful, all for the hope thta everything will become good and he can be back home.

However, this is not rational thinking. Somehow all of our late night talks, all of the things he has said that I know he meat at the time, I am grasping onto it, and I need to let it go. He may be a good man deep deep deep beneath that thick surface of sludge, but he seems to like sludge, and so....he will not clean up. Then I think about if he did stop, it would likely be just another temporary time of happiness in our marraige, then relapse.

I am tired, I am sad, I am severly depressed. I have got to let go of this burden of pain, and I have to let go of him, forever. Oh, I resist. I won't even pray becaues I feel, every time, that God is telling me to hang in there....I am beinning to beleive demons are haunting my prayer. I have to get to confession (I am Catholic). It is so freeing, and I used to go regularly before I let him back home in October.

I took some Xannex that my doctor game me today. It has eased my pain, and a friend of mine was telling me if I take it everyday for a few weeks, I will likely handle this whole thing better. I may taker her advice.

Thank you for your encouragement and support.

[drinkingwater]

I took some Xannex that my doctor game me today. It has eased my pain, and a friend of mine was telling me if I take it everyday for a few weeks, I will likely handle this whole thing better. I may taker her advice.

Oh my. I submit to you that working the NarAnon program is cheaper and healthier than medicating your problems away.

Just my .02.

Lindsey

[mom2seven]

I totally agree, I honestly do, but I have just been unable to function. I have NEVER medicated myself like this before. Maybe I am making a mistake, but I will say that I do not have an addictive personality.....unless that is about to change in me too....... Hmmm......

[DianeB]

I can honestly say that I don't think I had an addictive personality
until I began working this program. Let me see here.....

addicted to fixing and rescuing my loved ones
addicted to unhealthy behaviors
addicted to eating "comfort" food for solace
addicted to buying things for happiness - I deserve it!
addicted to having the best, being the best
addicted to being right
addicted to having to know
addicted to people pleasing
addicted to projecting an image for others
addicted to lots of things to give me that temporary relief from the truth
addicted to denial in so many areas


oh...dear....perhaps there is a twinge of addictive personality here.

Ya think!

Hugs....

[carpediem1]

When I was going through my separation and divorce from my ex-AH, I was worn down to a nub, physically and emotionally. My doc prescribed all sorts of things -- to calm me down, to help me sleep, etc. I was really scared to use them because addiction also runs in my family. When it became clear that a lack of sleep and huge anxiety was hurting my health (when I wound up on a heart monitor) I did take them for a short period. But I was convinced by then that I needed to change my whole way of living -- and at the root of it was deep insecurity and codependency. All of my physical problems were manifestations of my emotional state -- and I didn't have a handle on it until I got to the program. I decided to work with a therapist who had expertise in dealing with addiction. I took active steps to manage myself better and learned how to counteract my own negative thinking patterns and behavior patterns that kept me stuck in an anxious, dependent state. I learned how to calm myself down a little bit at a time, and then when I had a handle on things like sleep and managing anxiety, I was better able to deal with my life.

This is where putting the focus on myself really came into play. For you, it seems that getting your physical and emotional house in order should be at the top of your list right now. Once you get on firmer footing -- step 1, I am powerless over addiction -- then it's easier to let go of another's addiction and put the focus back on taking care of the real priorities -- you and your kids.

[mom2seven]

Thank you for all of the wonderful replies!!

I really do need to get up and get my house in order. It drives me absolutely crazy. It is like a rebellious thing against my husband I think, if I peel enough away to see that. That is the only thing he has really ever been able to use against me, and he has done so to make me feel as though I shouldn't do anything, no volunteering, no taking the kids to the park, no going to the pool, etc., so essentially he kept me in a state of guilt for doing the things that were keeping me sane.

Finally, I tried to go along with him, this time I was going to listen to him because of course, if I did what he said then it would all be great and we would get along, blah blah blah blah. It was at that moment that I began to decline, I had betrayed myself, and I continued to do so, and as I lost the sense of who I am, I became desperate to make this work out.

Then I found myself in the last 6 months being upset unless he was happy and being nice to me.....when I realized this I was in shock. I expected to be able to control this when I became aware of it, that is what I learned years ago with a therapist. That didn't work, I need to dig deeper.

Then I really found something in myself.....I want to be the one doing the leaving, but he screwed around with that skanky whore, that really hurt. So then I tried to dig deeper, because I don't really want to lose the marraige, but why???? Why would anyone want to stay with a man like this. Unpredicable, when it is good it is great, but when it is bad it is scary.

I like the good side of my husband. He can be so loving and generous, through the years we have helped many people in bad situations, but then I began to see an issue with his helping others, he expected them to show him change, he became so involved in his employees personal lives, always wanting to show them the right way.

Yet, he claimed that was me becuase I wanted him to be involved in church with me. I wanted him to step back from the unhealthy relationships at work. Unfortunately he has still not done that. He has serious issues in relationships. He is 41, and I believe it is high time for me to wake up and smell the coffee....He is not growing up......He does not desire to have healthy relationships......and more than anything, he likes drugs.

Now, I just wonder how much of this behavior is related to the drug use. I clearly see that these issues are dealt with in the 12 step program, and I realize that he has to desire this for himself. Since he does not desire it, I cannot change it, and so I must make a decision based on that.

Right now, I must decide that he cannot live in this house until he has stopped doing drugs. The environment is simply not good for me or my children. When he is crazy, I can only keep my composure for so long, and then I snap and start right back at him. Therefore I must protect myself from that.

Okay, I think I am starting to get it some. He is controlling my emotions by making me angry when he is, expecting me to be happy when he is, and I go along, becaue I just want to be happy. Anyway, I really just rambled on, putting my thoughts on here, hoping that this is going to bring me peace, soon.